… Eh?
Paul. … The apostle! You know, the one who wrote all those letters in the Bible.
Your joking?
No. The apostle even invited him to see his house …
Yes, Todd Bentley, a Canadian preacher of current fame (see ‘Lakeland Outpouring‘), has claimed to have had meetings with Jesus, Paul, Abraham, King David and an angel called Emma - besides encounters with numerous other angelic beings.
The descriptions of these encounters were written by him and were available at his FreshFire website. They are enlightening for anyone wanting to know more and are made available here for anyone now having difficulty trying to access this information. To read the full texts, just click on the sidebar link. Below are some revealing extracts:
I wonder what you make of it? :
Encounter with Heaven
An Encounter with Jesus:
In the chair, with my eyes open, I had an open vision. Jesus appeared right in front of me. It was as though He stepped right out of heaven, the Lord Jesus Himself, and stood before me as a Man. …
Now … the main thing that I was drawn to was Jesus’ eyes. He had brown eyes, and I know it sounds funny, but I immediately thought of Bambi! He had these big brown eyes and he was wearing a simple garment; it was almost brown, like the dust of the earth …
The Lord (of course) knew what I was thinking! He spoke to me without words— “These are My eyes as I had eyes on the earth. But if you were to see Me in heaven I have eyes ‘blue, like revelation eyes,’ like fire. These are My human eyes, not My God eyes.”
Like ‘revelation eyes’? Ah, yes - revelation eyes. Of course … I should have known. … Pardon??
Out of the Lord came beams of white and golden light. …
Then I saw what Psalm 23 and Isaiah 35 describe. I began to have a vision of the Paradise of heaven.
Then the Lord did two things to me. He walked up to me and He put His hand inside my belly and He gave me a supernatural enablement to live through what was about to take place. He was establishing me so I wouldn’t die. …
Then the vision faded and I was numb, honestly.
So would many be hearing him say this - numb, but for different reasons.
[Enter Paul, Abraham and King David]
This week I want to begin exactly where I left off last week—sitting on the bridge, in the peace of God in heaven …
Now it could have been anyone, or any thing, but by God’s design as unbelievable as it may sound, I actually saw the apostle Paul come walking toward me onto the bridge. You might be wondering how I knew immediately that it was Paul. I just perceived it by divine knowledge and revelation. Some things you just know. …
Or, think you know … Or, just imagine you know. Oh, sorry, this is ‘divine knowing’ - no room for doubt.
He sat next to me and he took his hand and placed it across my chest not saying anything. But I felt like I was receiving an apostolic blessing from a father—“For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established” (Rom. 1:11). While he touched my chest, Abraham and David appeared out of the cloud of witnesses (Heb. 12:1). Although they were very close (and yet somehow at a distance), they weren’t the main focus. They were simply there as witnesses to an encounter.
O.K. That’s it. Todd is now an apostle and who could ask for better witnesses?
… Paul told me that essentially there would be no gospel and there would be no Israel without Abraham. He said too, that there would be no gospel without David because there would be no divine Son of David (Jesus Christ) in order for the kingdom and His throne to be built upon the throne of David (Luke 1:31, 32). Jesus came through the lineage of David and with Jesus’ coming, the gospel was released. [My emphasis]
Woah! ‘Paul’ said that there would be no Son of David - no Jesus Christ - no gospel without Abraham and David? The Lamb who was ’slain before the foundation of the earth’ needed Abraham and David for the gospel? Our salvation depended on these men ? I don’t think so, ‘Paul’! - I am glad you didn’t write that in your letters! Of course Jesus would not have been called the Son of David if David had not lived, nor would prophecies mention the establishment of David’s throne without David. David came first - the prophecies later. The prophecies do not establish the need for David, but Christ.
Paul also said that—in the sense of the revelation of the gospel to the Gentiles—he was the greatest carrier of that revelation to them.
Paul said: ‘Of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities,’ 2 Cor.12:5. That doesn’t sound like Paul.
Because he didn’t actually walk with Jesus Christ when He was alive on earth like the other apostles did, Paul said that people doubted he was a true apostle. So, he had to fight against that doubtful mindset, because he really was a true apostle.
Do we need the association spelled out for us? Well, just in case there is any doubt, perhaps we do …
Furthermore, think about this: Jesus Christ put his hand inside my belly (see Part Two: Heaven is much more than we think), and Paul laid his hand on my chest to give me a father’s blessing. Listen! We need more blessings like this from Jesus Christ and the true apostles. I believe that similar experiences need to happen to you for your encounter in heaven and also for the church today . . . which brings me to my final crucial question. Do you want this?
Who, me? - Well, actually …
Back to Paul! I discovered while conversing with Paul that it wasn’t only Jesus Christ who taught him in heaven. I say this because Paul told me: “Abraham taught me, in heaven, and that’s how and why I wrote the book of Hebrews. What I heard was from the lips of Abraham himself.” …
What’s more, several days later I was taken back into heaven to Paul’s house! But this time I didn’t go inside. I stayed outside where I saw a ladder in his back yard like the one described in Genesis 28, Jacob’s ladder. [I’ve come to understand that there are ladders like that in heaven in order to ascend and descend into different realms because heaven has places, geographical places. For example, the first heaven is where we live on the earth; the second heaven is the invisible realm of Ephesians 6: 12; and the third heaven where I was with Paul, it’s the Paradise of God (Rev. 2:7).]
So Paul has a house with a backyard - now isn’t that interesting. The ladder seems a bit out of place in the backyard, but I guess with no thieves in heaven it will be alright. O.K., so what if this is all symbolism? What is this meant to say? Who is this about? Ah yes, I was forgetting …
So I jumped onto the ladder and began to climb up into another realm. …
God is establishing the reality of heaven in our hearts if we will allow Him! Once again, do you want this?
Let’s rephrase this: Do I want to submissively fall down when pushed or laid hands on? Do I want to emulate the twitching, jerky movements, the hysterical laughter and exhibitionism of persons I see on stage? Do I want to join in with all of this commotion? … No. Why not? Ask:
Is this how we glorify God? Is this how we glorify Jesus? Does this really glorify the Holy Spirit?
It bears repeating—God wants you to experience the reality of heaven, that heaven is real! And that’s why this teaching-article was written. Yet, ultimately, remember that it’s about Jesus! It all comes back to Him! He is the door and it’s only through Jesus Christ that you and I can enter in to the greater glory and the joy of our Lord. He is the only door to every true encounter with heaven.
Oh! Thank you for saying that! I had the impression this was all about you.
To read the complete text, click on the page in the sidebar or click here: Todd Bentley: ‘Conversations’
* SEE MY RESPONSE: Todd Bentley - Looking at the Fruits
The following is an extract from Todd Bentley’s article: ‘Angelic Hosts’. In this, he records a conversation with a fellow minister ‘Bob Jones’ - not the Bob Jones of the B.J. University!:
EMMA, ANGEL OF THE PROPHETIC
Now let me talk about an angelic experience with Emma. Twice Bob Jones asked me about this angel that was in Kansas City in 1980: “Todd, have you ever seen the angel by the name of Emma?” He asked me as if he expected that this angel was appearing to me. Surprised, I said, “Bob, who is Emma?” He told me that Emma was the angel that helped birth and start the whole prophetic movement in Kansas City in the 1980s. She was a mothering-type angel that helped nurture the prophetic as it broke out. Within a few weeks of Bob asking me about Emma, I was in a service in Beulah, North Dakota. In the middle of the service I was in conversation with Ivan and another person when in walks Emma. As I stared at the angel with open eyes, the Lord said, “Here’s Emma.” I’m not kidding. She floated a couple of inches off the floor.
Did she walk in or float? I am trying to picture the scene.
It was almost like Kathryn Khulman in those old videos when she wore a white dress and looked like she was gliding across the platform. Emma appeared beautiful and young-about 22 years old-but she was old at the same time. She seemed to carry the wisdom, virtue and grace of Proverbs 31 on her life.She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors.
O.K. Got it.
Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people. “God, what is happening?” I asked. The Lord answered: “She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that Emma showed up in this service-the same angel that appeared in Kansas city-as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church.”
Well, I must have had a word of knowledge. I was sure finances would come into this.
See, when angels come, they always come for a reason; we need to actually ask God what the purpose is. Within three weeks of that visitation, the church had given me the biggest offering I had ever received to that point in my ministry. Thousands of dollars! Thousands! Even though the entire community consisted of only three thousand people, weeks after I left the church the pastor testified that the church offerings had either doubled or tripled.
Yes. Give and you shall receive the blessing of God on your finances! Watch the money roll in (especially to the pastor). Obey those in church authority if you want spiritual blessings - don’t be rebellious, just hand over the cash. Hey, it works! - Soon your minister might be flying in his own jet! Your right, I am skeptical.
During this visitation the pastor’s wife (it was an AOG church) got totally whacked by the Holy Ghost- she began running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken as a powerful prophetic spirit came on her. Also, as this prophetic anointing came on her, she started getting phone numbers of complete strangers and calling them up on the telephone and prophesying over them. She would tell them that God gave her their telephone number and then would give them words of knowledge. Complete strangers. Then angels started showing up in the church. [Emphasis mine]
Well, I hope the pastor’s wife was not barking down the phone! Oh, boy! You really do have to set reason to one side to accept this one. No. Barking madness is not a fruit of the Spirit. Running around clucking like a chicken does not glorify God - and to suggest that such behaviour is the product of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. However, although I will concede that those claiming this might not really understand what they are saying, there needs to be heartfelt repentance and confession. This is a very serious matter - if it were not due to ignorance, we would be talking here about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I believe Emma released a financial and prophetic anointing in that place. That was the first angel that I have ever seen in the form of a woman. Some angels I’ve seen seemed like they were neither male nor female. However, Emma appeared as a woman who was like a Deborah, like a mother in Zion. When she came, she began to mentor, nurture and opened up a prophetic well. The people in the church began having trances and visions and the pastor began getting words of knowledge and moving in healing. That congregation also saw more financial breakthrough than they had ever seen before.
Todd Bentley
Well, I believe you have an idea what I think. What is your view?
To read the complete text, click on the page in the sidebar or click here: Todd Bentley: ‘Conversations’
* SEE MY RESPONSE: Todd Bentley - Looking at the Fruits
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“Revelation eyes” is a clear reference to Revelation 1:14.
If Jesus was to be born as a human being, he needed human ancestors. Could there have been a Jesus without Mary? Well, there could not have been without some human mother. Could there have been a Jesus without Abraham and David? He could perhaps have had some other lineage, but it was clearly God’s purpose that he would be descended from the royal line of the people of Israel, and that means Abraham and David. It is really very dangerous to suggest that God could have done something in a way different from the way we know he actually did it, as we have only a very partial idea of his purposes.
Do you want what God has for you? Or do you only want it on condition that it meets your preconceived ideas of what it should be like?
If it is wrong for someone to write anything “all about you”, then you had better get rid of this page! But perhaps it is OK for someone to write something about their own experiences in amongst a huge amount of material glorifying Jesus.
May I ask on what biblical authority you write
I understand your reservations about this behaviour. I am not entirely convinced that it is the work of the Holy Spirit. But it seems to me that the true blasphemy here is the categorical statement that the Holy Spirit cannot cause anyone to do this. The Holy Spirit is Lord, as one of the Trinity, and can do what he wants. Who are you to instruct him on what he can and cannot do?
Appreciated the commentary
Check this out from Slice of Laodicea…
*Crosstalk Alert* Wednesday
I recently posted a message from Justin Peters on the Word of Faith movement and its heretical teachings. This is the movement that has produced so many false teachers, including Todd Bentley and his Lakeland “revival”. …
Slice of Laodicea - http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com
CLS, what makes you think that Todd Bentley and Lakeland are part of the Word of Faith movement? This is not what Todd is teaching.
Peter, I just can’t imagine Jesus talking about His ‘revelation eyes’.
So, without David there would be no Son of David and no throne of David - isn’t that just a tad obvious? - He might have been called the Son of Abraham instead. I do not find his visions credible.
No. I don’t want this, yet I am open to God.
I am not claiming to be an apostle. What he has written is intended to confirm this position in the minds of those convinced by the ‘miracles’.
The Bible has its own authority - we merely do our best to convey what that is. Some will say that only priests of the apostolic succession have the authority to correctly interpret its truth. I don’t agree with this position. I certainly do not claim to have the authority of an apostle. Bentley does - and that concerns me.
No, God can do anything He chooses, but that is not the point - and not something I said. Such behaviour as that described is not the product of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would not make one do this.
Have you crossed the Rubicon?
CLS - Thank you. I will check that out.
But if “God can do anything He chooses”, and if we agree that the Holy Spirit is God, then how can you be so sure? It does sound a trifle arrogant, maybe even blasphemous, for us to say that God would not do something, at least in the absence of any specific scriptural statement that he would not.
Yes, on a visit to Italy many years ago. Or you meant this metaphorically? In that case I don’t know what you are talking about.
There is more attention on Todd than on Jesus. If God was using him, it would point to Jesus. He is worse than the word of faith! The latter rain is falling again and it is not pure.Same soup different bowl. We don’t command God, but follow Him. Todd is leading the focus on Himself. We are to pray to God not angels. That is not bible! There is no bible for what is going on in his meeting. Sorry, but people are being mislead.
Sorry, Peter, I had overlooked your comment of 25th June.
‘Have you crossed the Rubicon?’ I was wondering if you had reached the point of no return with respect to what I have judged to be your acceptance of Todd Bentley? I don’t think you have entirely - going by the critical remarks that you have made concerning his teaching on giving.
My hope is that you are still in the process of just inquiring.
Blessings!
Thank you, J.Norbert.
‘People are being mislead.’
I agree with you.
Norman, sorry to be slow replying to your slow reply. I don’t think anything could now convince me of the complete lack of validity of Todd’s ministry. I accept that there are some inadequacies in it and might be persuaded that there are more. And of course, God forbid, there is always the possibility that any human preacher including Todd may sometime go off the rails completely. But that would not invalidate his past ministry although it would show that it should come to an end. For I am not a Donatist who believes that a ministry is invalidated by the sins of the minister.
Peter, as I understand it, the Donatists were judged to be schismatics for not agreeing to accept the ministry of the ‘traditors’ - those ministers who had destroyed copies of the Scriptures to escape persecution in the reign of Diocletian (Bettenson). This stance allowed no room for the possibility of repentance and restoration on the part of those who admitted to their wrongs. Your definition of a Donatist, therefore - as I understand it from your comment, is not entirely correct. We are also not talking about qualifications for the administration of baptism or the Eucharist here.
There is no indication, as far as I know, that Todd Bentley has retracted any of his former public statements. Therefore, we must assume that he still holds to them - no matter how long ago he made them.